What's
your take on the story of Three And Out?
Well, it's a quirky tale. I don't how much I can give away, to be honest!
But Tommy, Colm Meaney's character, is terminally ill, he's had enough,
and he's going to kill himself. Mackenzie Crook's character, Paul, is
a tube-train driver who's already knocked over two people – God,
it sounds like a terribly depressing film, but of course it is
a black comedy – and he's heard that if you run down three people,
the tube company will pay you off, with ten years salary. So they meet
up, and Mackenzie says, “Look, I'll do the job for you, if you
like, on Monday morning,” thinking he'll get lots of money out
of it. So Colm's got some loose ends to tie up, and he comes up to the
Lake District for the weekend to see his ex-wife Rosemary, who I play.
He doesn't come to say goodbye to her, he just comes up to try to make
amends, if he can, which he can't really. Then he's going to go back
on the Monday and... Well, we'll have to see what happens, won't we?
What
can you tell me about your character?
My character's only in it fleetingly, but I think she's quite important
for Colm's character, to remind him what his life was like, what he's
left behind, and what he messed up. They were married for a good while,
but he was a gambler and a drinker, and he messed Rosemary around –
he used to keep disappearing for weeks on end. But this last time has
been the longest. It's been eight years: he walked out eight years ago,
and now he's trying to walk back in, and she's not having any of it.
She's had to make a new life, and she's had enough, really.
Had
you worked with Colm before?
No, but I'm a great admirer of his work.
What
can you tell me about the scenes you have together?
They're all quite difficult and emotional, but funny as well, of course.
And what's nice is that they're all condensed into that weekend. So
it's fairly full-on for him; she doesn't give him much leeway and she's
not very nice to him. Because she's very angry about it all. But she
realises that she's moved on, so she feels much more comfortable now,
and she's in no way tempted to take him back at all.
What
appealed to you about Three And Out?
Well, partly, as I said, because I think it's quirky, but also because
the two male characters are interesting, in that they're not run-of-the-mill
guy-movie material. They're men with weaknesses, and I like that. Rosemary
is quite a strong presence in Tommy's life, and I think she's got even
stronger since he left. She's a woman who says what she wants, and maybe
Tommy couldn't hack that. So she's interesting from that point of view.
Do
you get a lot of scripts? Are they easy to sort through?
It's easy to sort through them because you get quantity, but you certainly
don't get quality. And then you see a bit of writing that's just off-centre
and it jumps out. And if there's a good cast attached, you think, “That'll
do!”
Has
there been a certain range of roles opening up to you after Vera
Drake? This seems quite a small role for you…
Well, to be honest, I'd worked before Vera Drake, and all that
really happens now is that I just get more offers. But because you get
offered more roles, it doesn't mean they're better. Maybe I wouldn't
have got my role in Harry Potter unless I'd had all the kudos
I'd had with Vera Drake. They might have wanted me in it, but perhaps
I wouldn't have been that high up on their list. So that's how things
were affected by Vera Drake. But it's not like I think I should
be playing certain parts, or leading roles, because that's not how the
business works.
So
Vera Drake hasn't stopped people offering you comedic parts?
No, that hasn't happened at all. I'm just about to open in Cranford,
on television, which is very funny.
What
can you tell me about that?
It's based on Elizabeth Gaskell's book, and Heidi Thomas has done the
adaptation. It's a five-part costume drama with proper, good physical
gags in it. Very funny, and very moving. So it was nice to be able to
do something funny again. And with Harry Potter in the meantime,
I'm still, thankfully, getting offered contrasting roles, which is what
I've always done. From Vera Drake, the nicest woman in the
world, to Dolores Umbridge in Harry Potter, who certainly isn't.
So it's still happening.
How
was it to play Dolores Umbridge?
It was great to play the baddie, but in her mind she isn't a baddie
at all. She's very sweet and nice but very driven, and she's absolutely
convinced that what she's doing is right for everyone. But what she
does isn't very nice (laughs), even though it's dressed up in all this
outer pinkness and loveliness and kindness. She's a smily woman, which
was wonderful to play, rather than playing someone who's all in black.
Were
you a fan of the books?
Oh yes, I have daughter.
Is
it important to stay with British productions?
Well, it's where my life and my home is. I had the perfect American
job last year. I went out for two weeks and did a nice part in a film
with Hilary Swank, called Freedom Writers, and it was the perfect
gig: go out there for two weeks, do it, come home. I don't see myself,
and I don't want to be, living anywhere else. There's enough work here,
between here and Europe.
Is
the stage still important to you?
Yes, I did a play earlier [in 2007 at the Almeida Theatre. So I've got
my cake and I'm really, really eating every bit of it.
How
do you decide what to do?
I know it's boring, but it's always the script. After this, I'm doing
a kids' drama, which is called Clay, written by David Almond,
and that'll be a Sunday night, family entertainment. It's quite a strange
piece. I'm playing a character called Crazy Mary, she's this little
mad Irish woman, and I thought, “That's nice, I'll do that!”
I never think, “Oh no, I shouldn't be doing that sort of thing
– I should be off doing leading roles in big films!” Well,
they're just not there, are they? (Laughs.)
What's
Clay about?
It's set in the mid-60s up in Tyneside. Its about a young lad that comes
to stay with my character, but he's a bit weird – a bit religious
and a bit odd – but he makes fantastic little clay figures. And
then he meets up with another little gang of boys, who are all the same
age – about 14 or 15 – and he makes a full-size clay figure
that then comes to life. And it isn't very nice. In fact it's quite
frightening. So it's quite exciting, really.
Are
you an actor that needs a lot of preparation?
It's all on the page, really. Or it should be. But I think about it
a lot beforehand, and I try to do it all in my head, in my own time.
I try to do as much work as possible by myself.
How
did you train?
I went to RADA, and then I did six years in rep, doing my apprenticeship,
if you like. It was a great training ground.
Why
was that?
For me, what it was about was actually doing it, not just standing at
the back watching other people doing it. I was perhaps not doing it
very well, but at least I was doing it, and I was given a lot of responsibility
early on, and a lot of great roles. From St Joan, to Electra, to Piaf...
all this great stuff. And it just made me hone the craft, because, although
there's a certain amount you can do by watching other people, you really
have to get up there and make mistakes in order to learn. So that was
what was valuable. It happens a wee bit [for drama students] now, but
not a lot. I go and talk to drama students and it really isn't an option
for them to go and spend several years doing that.
What
kinds of things do they talk to you about?
Some of them say, “I want to do theatre,” but when you're
at drama school of course you want to do theatre, because that's
all you've been doing! But the business is now so locked into finding
new stars – “Let's get the new fresh young thing, make them
a hit and make a lot of money out of them”! But where do you go
from there? It's hard for young actors now to have some sort of... I
was going to say plan, but of course you can't have a plan,
because whatever your plan is, it's not going to work! Maybe what I
mean is that they need to keep their integrity. I just say to them,
“Look, I know it's hard when you're 20, 21, to think long-term
in your career, because you're thinking, 'Ooh, I've got to be a huge
success by the time I'm 25,' or, 'If I haven't done something amazing
by the time I'm 30, that's it, I'm quitting...' But hang on a minute!
There are many parts, and many ages, to go through to keep your work
alive. So if you think, 'I'm going to do it all now,' what are you going
to do next?” So I say to them, “Yes, you can have that big
success, but then maybe you could go back and do some theatre after
that, or some nice, interesting telly.” But, again, there are
a lot more opportunities for drama students now. I left in 1976 and
there was only rep! There was no film – you didn't go from drama
school to be in a film – or the West End. that was terribly
rare. And we only had one and a half channels on TV. Now, that doesn't
mean there's a lot of absolute quality out there, but there's a lot
more choice.
So
how do you make value judgements?
You make value judgements by saying no to television companies who want
to just make dross for no money – for anyone, I'm not
just talking about actors' pay. I'm talking about the quality of the
work that's being put on. That's what depresses a lot of actors now:
there's lots of bits and bobs going on, which is why actors cling onto
things like The Street, by Jimmy McGovern, and Cranford.
But I think the film industry is healthy here. It's television that's
messing things up, I think it's clouding the waters really. People are
saying that there are all these new production companies now, but they're
fly-by-nights: “Let's just make a lot of money and bugger off.”
But, without sounding pompous, that's not what art's about! They just
want to do it quickly.
Were
you always drawn to acting?
Yes!
You
talk a lot about scripts and writing. Ever thought about writing yourself?
No, I can't write at all! It doesn't necessarily follow that just because
you can talk about those things, or have ideas, you can put it on paper.
But that's what acting is about: telling these stories, so the script
is the bottom line. But within that, of course, there are times in your
life when you think, “Well, I've got to do this job because there's
nothing else happening,” and I've always been aware of that. There
might have been times when I've thought, “I wish I was playing
the other role...” But the truth is you're not playing
that other role, are you? So do you want stay at home being bitter and
twisted, or do you want to go out and get a job? I'd rather go out and
do something.
Ironically,
your breakthrough role was on Vera Drake. How was it working
with Mike Leigh, who famously starts work without a script?
It was a huge challenge. I'd never worked with him before, and of course
improvising with Mike Leigh is not like anything that one would imagine,
and certainly not what I imagined. I thought, “Oh God, I can't
do that, I can't just go into a room and suddenly do something.”
But that couldn't be further from the truth – spending six months
preparing a character is not the same as making it up as you go along.
How
did you approach it?
I don't approach it! It's Mike's way of working, and that's what you
go into. each day is different and there's no preparation involved.
He tells you what's going to happen that day, and it's a very long,
interesting and extraordinary process. It's not a case of just going
in and making it up. No. It would take longer than any of us have got
to discuss how it was made.
Was
Vera Drake an easy character to leave behind?
Normally they are, but Vera Drake wasn't at all, but that was because
it was such a different experience: you create someone, from the day
she was born, and then you live her life, so it's very hard to get rid
of that. You invent it with Mike, you inhabit it, and then he makes
it so that you can be put into any situation and just be that character.
You're so in the character that you can handle whatever's thrown at
you, which is exactly what happened. I mean, take the moment in the
film where the police arrive – I had no idea that that was going
to happen. You just have to handle it. rather terrifyingly!
So
you just kept going when that happened?
Mmm. For seven hours!
How
did you feel when you saw the finished film?
Mike always lets the core actors watch the film before anyone else sees
it. So I watched it and... I didn't know what to make of it,
actually. And I had to see it again, which is why he does [let those
actors see it first], because it's very weird and he knows how weird
it is. Its not like watching any other film, it's like watching a person
who you are, rather than the person you were pretending to
be. And the next time you think, “Ah, OK, it's a film.”
Because it's like someone you've been in a previous life. It's quite
disturbing. There's no distance.
Did
you learn improvisation at RADA?
We didn't do a lot of that, because we always worked with scripts. Sometimes
they would just say, “Ooh, now try it as if you're very happy
about this... Now try it as if you're not happy about this.”
But that's just something to exercise an actor's muscles and way of
thinking, because you can look at a script and think there's only one
way to play it. Or is there? And that's where you need good
teachers to say, “Look, just twist it all around. Let's do the
scene walking round very quickly – what does that throw up? That
you're angry?” So you need those exercises to broaden your imagination.
Career-wise,
what are your personal highs?
On stage, playing Piaf at Nottingham Theatre. Being in Guys
And Dolls at the National. Uncle Vanya, with Jonathan
Pryce and Michael Gambon. On television, The Singing Detective
and Cranford. In the cinema, Vera Drake and Harry
Potter.
Why
Piaf?
Oh, it was a great part and I sort of did it well. I felt as confident
as I could have felt.
Is
Edith Piaf someone you were interested in?
No. This was 1980. It had been in the West End, where Jane Lapotaire
had played it, so it was starting to come out to the reps. The director
at the time suggested I have a crack at it.
Is
that the only time you've played a real-life person?
I played the Queen Mother in a wonderful television series called Cambridge
Spies. Ooh, I loved doing that! I just did two scenes, one with
her in 1937 and another in 1947, and I really looked like her!
Do
you get recognised much?
Not really. Occasionally, but it's not like I can't walk down the street
without thinking, “Oh God, everyone's looking at me!” I
think you get recognised an awful lot when you're on the telly. Although
a lot of people saw Vera Drake, I think more people didn't
see it. And then there's the Harry Potter film, and we think
everyone sees Harry Potter, but it's usually people
with kids that see Harry Potter. So I don't really get recognised
all the time. I mean, occasionally. But I do think it must be very difficult
if you're in EastEnders. (Laughs) Those people are recognised
all the time!
Three
And Out
Mackenzie Crook interview
Colm Meaney interview
